Comments for The Antioch Manifesto Project

Comment on Concept #5 by dmcreavy

dmcreavy — Fri, 29 May 2009 17:02:21 +0000

Jeff, this is a great presentation. Looking forward to your presentations of the subsequent concepts (Note: The “Antioch Tradition” quotes are on pages 12 and 15 in my copy of Gonzalez; maybe its just my copy, or maybe its a typo on the slides?)

Comment on Concept #3 by Kelvin Smith

Kelvin Smith — Fri, 29 May 2009 13:15:05 +0000

This concept throws up some curly issues though.
When do you entrust? how much do you entrust? etc.
I’m a young leader and my mentor has said a few times that he has felt that this issues is one of the crucial things for a mentor to get right. If you let go too early it you get ignorance with arrogance, if you hold on to long you get control and relational tension. How much do you let a young leader have his head?
I know in my hear that if i’ve given too much ‘leash’ then I will make a hash of it. But I desperately need trial my skills and be given room to move.
I praise God for the balance of this issue that my mentor has

Comment on Concept #5 by Emory Brown

Emory Brown — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 22:44:43 +0000

brother gonzalez,
I do not remember hearing BILD say “all” para-church ministry dissolve, but I do have some information on the conditions that they should adhere to in order to properly be recognized in God’s order in this age. The following is from the Antioch School Material “Acts”

Organizations (Para-churches)
Those outside of local churches are possible if they fit the following criteria:

• They are involved in Ministries that support the expansion of the gospel and the establishment of local churches.
• They are recognized by local churches as valid ministries and whose members are commended by local church elders as ministers of the gospel.
• They recognize their sphere of responsibility as functioning in cooperation with the local church leadership teams, from which their authority and effectiveness are substantiated.
• They are oriented to the household order for families and churches and operate their ministries according to a biblical philosophy of ministry, i.e. they do not attempt to replace functions or ministries that properly belong within the household of God.
• They function as ministry arms of established churches in cases requiring additional organization for the engaging of good deeds in the world.

Hope this helps,
Emory
Buffalo NY

Comment on Introduction by Lenci, Albania

Lenci, Albania — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:27:14 +0000

Caleb, thankyou for your comment. Yes, I’ve already gone through the First Principles with my folks. In fact, with more than one group at different periods of time. I’m not saying that the FP were considered too strong a food by them. What I’m saying is that the FP are structured in such a way, syntactically and methodologically, that the Albanian mind finds it hard to adjust to them. For example, the questions posed in the FP are simply too long and complex. For another example, the projects required are simply something un-Albanian. Albanians are not used to writing projects or doing diagrams, etc. We come from a Russian-like educational background.

Interestingly, BILD, while non-traditional in its theology and philosophy (a good thing), brings a certain American (or Western) mindset through its materials. I’m speaking from an Albanian perspective only.

Steve Galegor and I have spoken about this issue often. I have expressed the desire and willingness to adjust BILD materials - rather than just translate them - into Albanian. I look forward to helping the Albanian church in this direction as much as I can.

Comment on Introduction by Caleb Keller

Caleb Keller — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:09:50 +0000

@ Lenci: Perhaps you could start people on more basic materials like the First Principles studies and work them up through some of the other materials before introducing them to some of the more advanced stuff. The Antioch Manifesto is some dense material (in a good way!); maybe folks need to be worked with before they are prepared for some of the more advanced things. Have they even received the First Principles as too complex?

Comment on Introduction by sgalegorjr

sgalegorjr — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 23:49:29 +0000

Lenci, your comment is understood from a context where a paradigm has not really been establish. In that case what needs to be done is just to lay the foundations in the Way of Christ rather than spend so much energy having to deconstruct what has been the paradigm developed over centuries. However, Christendom, as defined here, will still exert an influence and it will be important to be able to resist and expose the problems of a very powerful global influence that has been driving the conversation. Leaders like yourself, are those who will have to build in this way from the ground up. I am interested to hear from the leaders working in other similar situations around the world. Good to see your comments here, vëlla!

Comment on Introduction by Lenci

Lenci — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:14:10 +0000

This is really good. In fact, I’ve been using BILD materials for 3-4 years in my ministry.

One suggestion though: Seeing it from an Albanian perspective (Albania as in Southeastern Europe, not Albany, NY :)), whenever I read, watch, or listen to BILD or Antioch materials, I come away thinking: “There’s gotta be a way of simplifying this material to suit it to my countrymen.” While great in its ideology and theology, Antioch and BILD are sometimes too strong a food for the ordinary people to digest. A lot of work remains and needs to be done in this direction.

Comment on Concept #3 by Doc

Doc — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:28:07 +0000

Remarkably, this is one one of the most neglected principles in all of scripture. The examples of the success in keeping and the failure to keep this principle are profound. What God uses to make a “good” leader a “great” leader (I speak in human terms) is the keeping of this principle. Moses prepared Joshua, David prepared Soloman, Elijah prepared Elisha and there was a successful transition and leading of God’s people to continue to walk in His ways. Unfortunatly, the principle was not kept by the three and upon their departure failure soon followed the “people of God”. As a leader, our accountability before God has a much further reach than just for ourself.

Comment on Concept #5 by C.A.Gonzalez

C.A.Gonzalez — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:55:34 +0000

Since the Forum isnt up yet, here i go…

I have a question. I vaguely remember reading that the Antioch Manifesto proposes that all para-church ministry dissolve, which i tend to agree with… but i say that almost out of ignorance…

Does that mean that they’ll be absorbed into local churches as individual ministries? Or networks of local church ministries?

Take Wycliffe, InterVarsity, or TeenMania’s Global Expeditions, for example… how would these para-church ministries work with regards to the reforms proposed in the AM?

Comment on Concept #4 by Carlos Gonzalez

Carlos Gonzalez — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 16:36:28 +0000

Quick side note: on the introductory slide to the Didache, is it supposed to say that Didache is the Greek word for teaching? Because it instead says Greek work.

Otherwise, i cant get enough of this! This really is (whether unfortunately or not) totally revolutionary!

I especially loved the bit at the end re. discipleship. I always have the same confused look in my eyes when im told that certain “missions agencies” are hailed and greatly acclaimed, but when i ask how many strong churches and leaders came from the labor-and not converts alone-no one can give me a real number.

The Jesus film and summer-mission-trips and story telling work great, but only in concert with strong discipleship and leadership development, which precludes creating the vacuum being left by so many organizations…

Mr. Reed, i cant wait until this Antioch Manifesto becomes more widely known, taught, and used!